CNBC Power Lunch · · 47 min

Reaction to PPI Data, TeraWulf CEO Interview, Global Energy Markets 10/15/26

With Bill Simon, Bob McNally, Herb Greenberg, Mark Newton, Paul Prager, Steve Sosnick, Todd Gordon

Summary

CNBC Power Lunch covered a hot PPI print and its effect on markets, with Mark Newton arguing the S&P 500 sits only about 1.1% below its highs, breadth is improving, and tech dips are buyable, while preferring healthcare near term and seeing crude pulling back in coming weeks. Steve Sosnick questioned the bond rally on a bad inflation print, the crude futures backwardation, and whether the stock rally depends on AI returns continuing to justify high borrowing costs. Bob McNally warned that Middle East and Russia-Ukraine conflicts, plus the end of SPR releases, leave oil tighter than the market expects. Paul Prager defended TeraWulf's colocation model with investment-grade tenants and on-schedule builds at $8-10 million per MW, while Herb Greenberg cast neocloud debt, including CoreWeave, as a telecom-bubble echo; Todd Gordon was bullish on Halozyme and Eli Lilly.

Key takeaways

  • Mark Newton (bullish on Salesforce): Software is a very good buy; Salesforce is recovering off its lows after the dip.
  • Bill Simon on US consumer: Consumers are resilient and a recession is hard to reach while spending holds up.
  • Bob McNally on Middle East & Iran: Three energy conflicts are escalating with no sign of improvement; a quick deal is unlikely.
  • Todd Gordon (bullish on Halozyme Therapeutics): Halozyme is a cheap, fast-growing royalty story with beating results, raised guidance and buybacks; buy the pullback.
  • Herb Greenberg (bearish on CoreWeave): CoreWeave's heavy debt and venture-arm moves look like the telecom-boom playbook; risky, not a sure winner.

What was said, by company and theme

19 views from 7 speakers. Every quote is checked against the episode's transcript (how).

Salesforce

Across the shows: 5 speakers in other episodes, 4 bullish and 0 bearish calls, past 30 days

  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global AdvisorsBullish

    Software is a very good buy; Salesforce is recovering off its lows after the dip.

    Newton names software as a very good buy for investors who buy dips. He points to Salesforce hitting its highest level in a few weeks. It is still well below its all-time highs but is clearly making progress off its lows, which he reads as a technical recovery.

    “Software is actually a very good buy. For those who like to buy dips, look at things like salesforce.com, CRM.”at 6:59

Halozyme Therapeutics

  • Todd Gordon · Inside Edge CapitalBullish

    Halozyme is a cheap, fast-growing royalty story with beating results, raised guidance and buybacks; buy the pullback.

    Halozyme converts IV drugs into quick under-the-skin shots and earns a royalty each time a partner sells one. Sales have grown about 20% to 60% a year since 2019. It earned about $4 a share in each of the last two years and is expected to earn $8.84 in 2026, rising to about $11. It is beating estimates, raised full-year guidance and bought back about 330,000,000 of stock. At about 14 times earnings the valuation is low for that growth. Gordon says it has broken out to new highs above its moving averages and suggests buying a pullback.

    “Halo is trading only 14 times earnings. So I mean, it's a very very good valuation as well... Halo buying a pullback.”at 38:48

Eli Lilly and Company

Across the shows: 3 speakers in other episodes, 3 bullish and 0 bearish calls, past 30 days

  • Todd Gordon · Inside Edge CapitalBullish

    Eli Lilly's new oral GLP-1 pill is a bullish, actionable healthcare pick.

    Gordon likes Lilly's new oral GLP-1 pill. Patients can take it at any time, while Novo's pill has to be taken in the morning at a particular time. He calls Lilly the more actionable of his healthcare picks and says healthcare in general looks good.

    “Another one a big one that I like is Lily in here with the new oral GLP one pill. You can take it anytime compared to Novo where you have to take it in the morning at a particular time.”at 38:48

CoreWeave

Across the shows: 17 speakers in other episodes, 3 bullish and 17 bearish calls, past 30 days

  • Herb Greenberg · Herb Greenberg | On the Street (Herb on the Street)Bearish

    CoreWeave's heavy debt and venture-arm moves look like the telecom-boom playbook; risky, not a sure winner.

    Greenberg says CoreWeave was controversial before its IPO, pointing to a 50-page risk-factor section. He says CoreWeave Ventures is not quite a canary in the coal mine, but it is worth watching. He says it fits the telecom-boom pattern, in which companies launch venture arms while they make no money, have no free cash flow and are loaded with debt. He cites a Gartner report saying 60% of neoclouds will be gone by 2030, and says so much debt tied to these companies is the core issue. He sees data centers being deferred and canceled and argues that something has to give.

    “And that's the issue because you have so much debt, so much tied to it.”at 42:49

US stock market outlook

  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global Advisors

    Technical trends are intact and the pullback is minor; investors should buy dips in tech.

    Newton says the S&P 500 is only about 1.1% off its all-time highs, and tech's recent drop feels worse than it is after a strong run. Equal-weighted S&P bottomed in early October, RSP is at its highest since mid-September, and healthcare is at new highs, so breadth is improving. He expects profit growth to be the best in thirty years and GDP estimates were raised to 2.2%. He argues the economy and profits are sound, midterm fear is a buying opportunity as usual, and he would buy most tech dips, conditional on signs that memory semiconductors are stabilising.

    “technical trends remain in fantastic shape. We have not broken near term uptrends from July, nor the longer term trends.”at 5:30
  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global Advisors

    Healthcare is preferred over technology in the near term after its recent breakout.

    Newton says healthcare has broken out to new all-time highs, and the broader market is rotating into it. Because of that recent breakout he prefers healthcare to technology in the near term, while still saying he would buy dips in most of technology.

    “I still like health care in the near term better than technology given its recent breakout”at 6:38
  • Steve Sosnick · Interactive Brokers

    Russell 2000 is at risk if lenders stop funding unprofitable small companies.

    Sosnick says many Russell 2000 companies are not profitable and need to borrow. If investors are not lending to lesser credits, the index's components are in real trouble. He used this to explain why the Russell 2000 was not rallying as strongly as larger stocks.

    “a lot of these stocks are not profitable, and they need to be able to go out and borrow money, and if people are not lending money to lesser credits, then the Russell two thousand components are in some real trouble.”at 8:41

Oil & fuels

  • Steve Sosnick · Interactive Brokers

    Crude futures curve shows the oil supply situation is not improving.

    Sosnick reads the futures curve and its backwardation. Front-end futures are down about $4 from a month ago, but a year out they are up about $8. He takes that shape to mean the supply situation is not getting better, so crude is not being priced for relief.

    “The crude futures are telling us the supply situation is not getting better... It's not.”at 11:17
  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global Advisors

    Crude is unlikely to rise materially above $100 and should soon turn lower.

    Newton says crude is down over 10% in the last month and a half despite ceasefire difficulties. US production has risen to over 14 million barrels a day, which shows US oil infrastructure is in good shape. He sees crude not moving materially higher and says the price is very close to a point where it should start to turn lower. He expects a pullback in the weeks ahead.

    “crude is not moving up materially, back up above 100 in my view. I think we're very, very close to a time when it should start to turn lower.”at 12:44
  • Bob McNally · Rapidan Energy Group

    Oil buffers are gone and the market is tight again; a surplus next year is unlikely.

    McNally says China cut crude imports by 4.5 to 5 million barrels a day in March but is now back to buying. The SPR releases that cushioned the earlier shock are ending, and Europeans are slow-walking the last barrels. Diesel cracks are still above $100 a barrel. He says the market is back where it started without the earlier offsets, and he does not see the surplus next year that the market expects.

    “So we're back to where we started and without the buffers and some of those offsets and easing factors that we relied on.”at 33:59

AI bubble & tech valuations

  • Steve Sosnick · Interactive Brokers

    Stock rally depends on AI ROI; doubts about it could make tech and stocks fragile.

    Sosnick argues the stock market has rallied despite rising bond yields because investors believe AI spending will pay off. If the ROI is seen as effectively infinite, borrowing costs of 9% or 20% do not matter. A sustained tech decline driven by doubts over AI ROI would expose that fragility.

    “if people really start to question the ROI on AI investment, which has allowed the stock market to rally despite bond yields going up.”at 4:54
  • Herb Greenberg · Herb Greenberg | On the Street (Herb on the Street)

    AI spending is priced for perfection and echoes the telecom bubble; some neoclouds won't survive.

    Greenberg compares the AI boom to the telecom bubble. He says companies are launching venture arms while losing money and carrying heavy debt, which is what happened in telecom. He says not everyone will make it, citing a Gartner forecast that 60% of neoclouds will disappear by 2030. He argues AI is priced for perfection, so nothing can go wrong. He describes the market as full of people who disagree about how the AI story will play out, and says investors are asked to just trust that the debt will work out.

    “Everything is priced for the ultimate of perfection. There cannot be anything untoward.”at 42:49

US Treasuries & yields

  • Steve Sosnick · Interactive Brokers

    Bond rally reflects an oversold market plus flight to safety, a risk-asset warning.

    Sosnick says that a 10 basis point rally in bonds on a bad PPI print would not have been expected. He attributes it to an oversold bond market combined with a flight to safety. The open question is whether money is flowing into Treasuries because it is leaving risk assets, which would be problematic for stocks.

    “So what this is telling us is it's something else. It's a combination of an oversold bond market and a flight to safety”at 9:03
  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global Advisors

    Treasury yields have not peaked; expects one more push higher into November.

    Newton says the yield trend is still quite positive. The US bond market has been following Europe, where French bonds have sold off. Growth has been revised up to 2.2%, and rates rising on growth is healthy because the term premium has largely been taken out. He sees temporary new highs into November, with cycles pointing to a later turn down. Getting back below 4%, as earlier this year, would need a lot to go right given the Middle East situation.

    “I don't think treasury yields have officially peaked for the year. I see one more push up into November.”at 9:28

US inflation

  • Mark Newton · Fundstrat Global Advisors

    Inflation ex-energy is easing; the current price pressure is only a supply shock.

    Newton says inflation outside energy has been gradually ticking down. Most components are below baseline over the last twelve months. He rejects the view that inflation is back and calls the current move a supply shock only. He expects crude to pull back in the coming weeks, which would bring a lot of relief to CPI.

    “We know that the inflation data largely outside of energy has been gradually ticking down... everybody's saying inflation is back. Well, my thinking is it's a supply shock only.”at 10:24

AI infrastructure & data centers

  • Paul Prager · TeraWulf

    Only a couple of neocloud providers will win; most face an expensive, risky bet.

    Prager says a couple of neoclouds will win, and the rest probably will not. He calls neocloud business expensive and risky because they bet on a technology's value at a later date while spending huge amounts on chips. TeraWulf deliberately avoided that model and simply sells space to investment-grade customers.

    “A couple of the Neo Clouds will win, and I think the rest probably will not. It's a very expensive and risky business to be in.”at 20:44

US consumer

  • Bill Simon · Hanesbrands (chairman); Darden Restaurants (board)

    Consumers are resilient and a recession is hard to reach while spending holds up.

    Simon argues the consumer is resilient because the economy has near-full employment, wage rates are historically high, and workers have jobs and cash. Consumption is the economy's main driver, so a recession would be hard to reach if spending holds. He sees high fuel prices, such as $4.57 gas in California, and heated political discourse as negatives that slow spending for a period.

    “the consumers are incredibly resilient, and they have been for quite some time.”at 25:41

Consumer & retail

  • Bill Simon · Hanesbrands (chairman); Darden Restaurants (board)

    Retailers will pass tariff rebates back to shoppers via price cuts during the holidays.

    Simon says big retailers and manufacturers received tariff rebates, with Walmart getting nearly $3 billion, Target $1 billion and Nike $1 billion. Those rebates were passed through to consumers as higher prices. Class-action suits are now pushing companies to return the money. Walmart has said it will pass the rebate back through price reductions, and Simon expects this to happen during the Christmas selling season.

    “So I think we're gonna see some of that happen during the Christmas selling season. They have to... Otherwise, I think they're gonna lose some of these class action suits.”at 28:00

Middle East & Iran

  • Bob McNally · Rapidan Energy Group

    Three energy conflicts are escalating with no sign of improvement; a quick deal is unlikely.

    McNally says three conflicts are directly hitting energy flows and fixed infrastructure: Saudi Arabia against the Houthis and Iran, the US against Iran, and Russia against Ukraine. Each has an escalatory dynamic, and none is getting better. The market is less optimistic but still wants to believe a Trump deal will end this. He is uncharacteristically optimistic about Saudi resilience, since Riyadh has repaired an East-West pipeline and is repurposing a gas pipeline to move crude to the Red Sea. He warns that escalation could overwhelm those efforts.

    “We have three now conflicts that are directly impacting flows of energy, but also fixed energy infrastructure... none of them seem to be getting better. Each of them has a [an] escalatory dynamic underway.”at 30:51

Across the shows

What other episodes Chorus covered said about the same companies in the 30 days up to this one.

Topics

  • AI bubble risk
  • AI return on investment and stock rally
  • bond rally drivers
  • bond yields path
  • colocation business model
  • consumer spending resilience
  • crude oil futures curve
  • crude oil price outlook
  • data center build execution
  • energy supply conflicts
  • inflation outlook
  • market pullback and dip buying
  • neocloud business model
  • neocloud debt financing
  • oil supply buffers and tightness
  • oral GLP-1 pill
  • pharma & biotech royalties
  • sector rotation
  • small-cap stocks and credit access
  • software stock dip-buying
  • tariff rebate price pass-through

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